Hi ther... I am trieing right now to get my game with playin the rails better. It is normaly not so hard to learn about the physics of rails, but as soon i buildet up some standart rail shots in practice room i recond that they are not standart on this rails . I play pretty good pool, snooker and carom in real life, fore sure not pro style or even close to it, but not bad. But i know how to use the diamont system on those tables, and as i keept on trying those shots in Prac.room, i recond that even some very easy shots like 3 rails round shot are simple not possible without english spin. Here is a link for explaining what the diamont system is. Coz many ppl think ther opponents are chetters when they make a 5 rail shot on the spot, but it isent, its the diamont system http://www.easypooltutor.com/article32.html
My question now is, how did u create this table if not with that diamont system? Maybe u Admins can do a litle adjust to those rails
Very best Regards

Ps. The link is only part 1, in bottom of that page u c the link to part 2. And in ther are some more posts and answer aswell for explaining about daimont system

you're right. this should be done in order to get this pathbreaking game even more realistic.

We have been constantly tweaking this and will continue to do so. It is not as simple as you would think to make a formula and have it behave exactly like in real life.

I'm in fact going with the programmers today to the poolhall here in Vilnius to see what can be accomplished.

As you know from carom and snooker the rails are harder than they are in pool which makes the diamond system a little more relevant for multi rail shots. It is difficult to maintain accuracy on soft rails. Before the rails were very hard and similar to snooker rails where you can go 6.5 table lengths with a full shot. In pool the maximum is usually close to 4.5 which the rails now reflect.

If you want to save and send in some replays of what you think is lacking that would be great and we can evaluate and respond to you easier.

cheers.

Ur right , snooker rails ar harder, well u feel they are harder while u play aswell coz the balls are smaller and has more impactpoint on the rail. But in pool u still need the daimonts a lot for banking shots in midle pockets for example, i just took the 3 rail round shot in my main post for example, to show that a even easy shots dont fit 100% right. Ur right and i believe you that it is very complicated and has sure no formula to use(well none i know). But here are some things that i think that could be the reasons for those rails maybe to go lacking.
In my eyes are those rails to soft-that doesent mean that u was wrong with the stiffness messure of the rails what u told me woody. Some other reasons for that problem could maybe be this: the balls are to heavy, the ball has a to small impact point on the rail, the ball sticks to long in the rail and gets a bit fired out to hard again(uncontrolled speed accelleration). But sure is, the white ball doesent get off the rail in the right angle, the angle is always to soft. I realy apreshiad ur work on and in this game dont get me wrong, just trying to get things even more realistic. Its just coes the more and more u play, the better u get, the better u get, u will more and more realize what is maybe not 100% right. And i think this game is so good with phisics and all arround it what u and the admins offer to us, it just deserves more then a maybe 98% of a realistic table(rails).
TyTy and best regards, i hope maybe i could make you understand a bit what i mean with the rails, ty again.

redrum asked me to look and maybe post on this topic. so here is my opinion.Sorry Redrum. On a real pool table when you hit a rail, the rail itself bends, and no 2 tables are the same, generally speaking of course. Having said that, no rail shots are really standard. And I am not sure and probably dont want to know what kind of programming you would have to do to make a rail bend more or less on a computer depending on how hard you hit a ball. Then do it with every grade of spin you can put on a ball. What I have done is practice ways to hit balls without having to use a "fancy" rail shots. Jumps and masse shots. But like real pool, it will take lots of practice to master any single type of shot. So what I would suggest is just to practice practice practice. Ask nick how much he has to practice to keep on top of his game. I have met a pro and he told me he plays 8 hours a day just to keep sharp.

Thatr is no problem coz i still no i am right, unless i woudlnt have started to post. As far i can tell all pool tables should have the same daimont systems. So
look this picture,

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5493/therightanglejl5.png

in red lines are where the daimonts are now, the blue lines is the spot wher the daimonts should stick. so maybe the size of the table is not right figured. J-wall ofcourse i am not dissapointed and what u say is 100% right, but still is a good player able to locate witch small adjust he has to take for the shot that should be able on all standart pool tables. I am just trying to figure why it doesent go here. And the picture shows 110% to me, that the tables is not right messured. U know i love this game i would never try to make some1 crazy for nothing...
TY and best regards.

ps. i practice, practice and practice a lot thats maybe way i see some like that mf

ok, i took a look at the taqble. the diamonds are set to the full length of the table, not the playing surface. they need to be shortened up. it seems simple. just measure the diamond markers to the playing surface not the whole table.
sorry for the mix up redrum

youre very welcome

Thanks guys, we certainly appreciate you guys testing everything, that's the point of beta test. I have good news, and I have bad news now though.

The good news is we are actively testing your questions, the bad is it might take a while.
As far as the diamonds go being to the table, I didn't notice that before and will inform Nick van den Berg to take a look.

I went with microcell (the main programmer) last night went out to shoot some stick here in Vilnius. What we found is conflicting to both our sides, and inconsistency from tables. Obviously the hard to hit into the rail it comes of at a steeper angle the harder you hit. This vector is quite complicated and is a function of the velocity of the ball and the angle it enters. When you hit hard the rails deform more and spit the ball with a vector going somewhere between the entry angle and the true angle coming off.

The conclusions is that the rails are still too hard, not too soft. We are going to spend some time on this problem. Most of the diagrams on the diamond site are impossible at natural roll, you must add significant side to keep the ball where you want.

May I sarcastically suggest you attain better feel and keep position on your shots for the near future instead of using 3 rails every time?

J-Wall Wrote:
ok, i took a look at the taqble. the diamonds are set to the full length of the table, not the playing surface. they need to be shortened up. it seems simple. just measure the diamond markers to the playing surface not the whole table.
sorry for the mix up redrum

This from graphics department... the table, pockets and diamonds are based perfectly on a match table here, and the balls, cues and everything else is exact in actual weight. So any discrepancy or divergence from the real world is based solely on physics.

Also, what you guys are not accounting for (and I failed to mention) is the parabola track of the ball when it comes of the rail. The ball will always track with a slight parabola due to many factors. Some of the physics taught to pool players is not exact science. Of course it is impossible to sense the slight parbola that ends of affecting other things.

But of course your feel should be trusted more than anything else....that's the trouble in this reconciling feel online with real word.

Ding ding, we have a bug I think....

After further review it appears the diamonds were in fact measured in the way you describe. Not sure if this is an oversight by us or the table manufacturer. We will see tonight.

Don't expect a quick change, but we should be able to take care of this soon. I am going to meet with Shaftas (Lithuanian 9-ball Champion) tonight in Kaunas and will let you know what he says. I'm taking my laptop to his pool club which he has there.

I can't wait to play russian pyramid!

Woody Deck, I have been playing pool on real tables on a regular basis for over 10 years now, and I do know what you are saying, and I have accounted for that if you would read my first post. Also, when you shoot at a diamond, your shot is not going where you think it is because the diamond itself is about 2-3 inches behind the cusion, so to shoot from an angle and hit the spot where the diamond actually is, you have to shoot a little farther up the rail. In other words, the diamond is not a marker to shoot at, but a pointer showing you where to shoot on the rail.

Its very nice from you all that you do so much to erase lilte problems emiditly. I realy apprechead it a lot. And if you go to night do me a favour, take a messure angle with ya and messure the the angle. And yes you are very right, it still takes a lot of touch to play 3, 2 rails or even just 1. But it is like i sayed, maybe sounds selfish or stupid. This touch that you need to hit the rails from the right angle to make it come out in right angle again etc is what u get as soon u get realy good. I dont whant to say that, but i think i am on my way to get realy good in this game. I would believe myself that i have the knowledge to feel what i have to do, to make my shot end up close to that what i intendet to do. If all fits right ofcourse. So i am veeeeeery satesfied that u take my post so serius, ty for that. Btw, if the easy thing like the daimonts stick not 100% right, who says that all other things that you got from this company are 100% messured right. But anyway, i am pretty sure that u guys will fix it, u fixed everthing so far, veeeeeery good job my friends and we will be patient.
Ty Ty and best regards

here is a other good 1 look the movie 2:20mins http://www.mypooltv.com/PoolTips.htm

ty best regards

Mr.redruM Wrote:
here is a other good 1 look the movie 2:20mins http://www.mypooltv.com/PoolTips.htm
ty best regards

Hi guys....I measured today on the real life table here today and the pocket was off just like on poolstars. I am very confused now and will find the solution.

I also spent a few hours testing and playing with a professional the diamond system. I have a better understanding now, but I think it is impossible to ever be absolutely sure the rails are perfect. I would agree there needs to be a little tweaking to something but we haven't decided what it is...and then how.

Personally I developed a better feel for 3 rail shots, so I will see tomorrow with poolstars and let you know.

I think the diamond markings is very minor for now because it is more feel anyway than exact guides. you have to aim differently based on the power and spin of shot anyway and no diamond can tell you how. But the trueness of the rails is a concern and be assured we will keeping testing it.

Ding Ding as u say
I found the coz of all problems........ The table is 100% not right messured. i guess this table we play on in poolstars should be a standart 8 foot table right? Well even if not, the size of a table is always, and never diffrent: headside in cm or inch X topside in cm or inch. For 8 foot table that maks 44x88, but on pool stars its defenetly way more the 44 on the head- or footside. that i talk the thruth is proofed here http://www.hotshotscanada.com/cat252_1.htm
now you just need to look for the size of those both sides and it should all be ok i exapt checks or creditcards Ty ty and best regards, i hope this can now get solved quiker maybe

Mr.redruM Wrote:
Ding Ding as u say
I found the coz of all problems........ The table is 100% not right messured. i guess this table we play on in poolstars should be a standart 8 foot table right? Well even if not, the size of a table is always, and never diffrent: headside in cm or inch X topside in cm or inch. For 8 foot table that maks 44x88, but on pool stars its defenetly way more the 44 on the head- or footside. that i talk the thruth is proofed here http://www.hotshotscanada.com/cat252_1.htm
now you just need to look for the size of those both sides and it should all be ok i exapt checks or creditcards Ty ty and best regards, i hope this can now get solved quiker maybe

Or maybe you'll have to get better at controlling the cue ball.

I think it could be the lithuanian tables here for the problem but still not sure yet....At least we didn't use Australian tables. In Australia there are NO places with american pockets and balls to play american pool. They have 9 ft tables but they use snooker style pockets and snooker size balls that look standard for 'american pool'. They still play english too. All the rules are the same except no diamonds, and no cheap rides down the rail. They don't get at all what a standard american table is with pockets as wide as buckets.

Well i thought you would have understnad what i talk about, but your post doesent seem tho. I sayed it doesent matter where on the world we go, a table is always short side x long side!!! Yesterday night it wasent like that on poolstars. The pockets can be buckets or even a wiener, i dont care, i talk about this game.And please stop telling me how much touch or what a awsome player you have to be to work out good with rails, please!!! Just fix the rails and the daimonts to the right position and i will show you how much it taks to play with them, let it be up to a player if a shot is hard or not. You care about that the physics of the game to make it realistic and the player shows you what is possible? Maybe we need a 5 star admin, i dont know. But thats all i whanted, i never whated disucssions about lithauens table or australien tables in any way,i talk of this game and how it should work. And if the daimonts dont stick on the right spot 100% like it is now it is usless to keep this post up coz we can not see now how much its gettin better coz the daimonts are not ther wher they should be. Ty Ty best regards
p.s. i have to say i am a bit dissapointed now
Ty Ty best regards

Woody deck sayed: Or maybe you'll have to get better at controlling the cue ball.

You are the person with 2 stars not me, lol best regards

Don't be disappointed! You are absolutely right, the diamonds is wrong now:
http://www.poolstars.com/work/PS_diamond_system_long_side.jpg
http://www.poolstars.com/work/PS_diamond_system_short_side.jpg

Everything will be ok, we are fixing it now.

P.S. table proportions is right.

Best Regards,
PoolStars development team.

THAAAAAAAAAANK you, finnaly some 1 hears me that knows what i mean, good job dash..
Tyty and best regards

Hello
im a active poolplayer, and i've read alllooot of books on kicks and banks.

the problem is not really that the diamond is like 1/2 inch off.. its how the rail bounces the balls.
if you get the bounce to be right. the rest is nothing.
it will be "ah i have to shot a 3 railer..or whatever .
I just have to remember to aim 1/2 inch higher than normal.beacuse thats how the table plays.
its like this in real life. all tables play a little different.
but the bounce.. as it is now. dosnt get you close to the target.

i added video of the 3railer you guys are talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z-gxioafB0

so you can say: -why not use reverse on all kick shots??
well thats stupid. try shoting all 1 rail kicks with max reverse english.. how good control do you think you will get??? even practise wont help you there.

on bank shots its even bader.. you cant add much side spinn to the object ball. and that makes it almost impossible
for now i stay away from banks and kickshots.. whitch is a big part of my reallife game.

i hope you guys get the bounch of the rails to work good soon.
if you look away from the rails. this is a great game. and you guys are doing a great job.

sorry for my english.
REDHOUSE

Mr.redruM Wrote:
Woody deck sayed: Or maybe you'll have to get better at controlling the cue ball.
You are the person with 2 stars not me, lol best regards

I lose all my ratings beta testing. :-(

Redhouse, agree completely.

Guys, try using the break cue in practice at full power and it holds true to what a soft shot on a real table would at true roll. So something is off with rail calculations although not too far off in terms of logic. More testing required.

Also, diamond measurements will be fixed, and I have found on a lot of live tables it differs in accuracy so that's not such a big deal.

Has anyone notice any shots recently in 9-ball being declared a foul when they clearly are not?